Lift Tools in Beta 9 under Windows 7-64bit

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Lift Tools in Beta 9 under Windows 7-64bit

In version 4.0 the Lift Tools work as expected but I tried version 4.1, Beta 9 and found that if I used the Lift Tools to copy and then apply a toolstack to a new version, the new version came out very high contrast and nothing like the original.

My procedure was: In Browser, select edited 'fileImage_lzn.jpg' and click Copy Toolstack; select original RAW file 'filename.CR2' and click Apply Toolstack.

Am I doing this wrong? it works OK in version 4.0 but not 4.1, Beta 9

Open the image to which you

Open the image to which you have just "applied" the tool stack and check which tools have been applied.


You may find that there is a duplicate tool instance down at the RAW tools level or, perhaps, elsewhere in the stack.


Let us know what you find and we can assess things from there. It could be useful to know which camera model provided the original CR2 file.






Lift Tools in Beta 9 under Windows 7-64bit

There is indeed a duplicate tool, in this case RAW Adjustment but I can't delete it.

I tried using CopY & Apply Toolstack to the file again and found everything duplicated; it seems that the toolstack had been applied in addition to existing tools rather than replacing them.

The original CR2 file came from a Canon 450D and this procedure works fine in version 4.0




I don't recall a problem with 450D profiles but there was a naming issue (upper and lower case sensitivity) with a couple of other profiles a few months back However, as far as I know they have been resolved in subsequent beta releases.


You should be able to right click one or other of the duplicated tools and Unl;ock them then de-activate them


However be sure that you are lifting and applying the tool stack to a new version of the original file or (more typically) to a different file rather back on top of the _lzn.jpg file already created.


The _lzn file or if batch generated the equivalent .jpg file is a jpg that containes both edit instructions and a preview file. As such it is editable but editing it is not advisable of course - you would very likely in effect be editing a low resolution pre-edited version of a  preview file. That's not really what you would want to do.


If you see a duplicate of all the tools it sounds like that is the sort of problem you are seeing. Be sure to apply the "Lifted" tools only to a currenlty unedited version of the original file at this stage.


Later, there may be situations when you might lift from one file and apply to another that has already need editied (but not usually with the same tools) but for now try to avoid that if you have not already done so.






re Hmm

Neither of the two copies of the duplicate tool are deletable - they both only display a '?' in the top right of their box.

Also, the problem I describe in version 4.1, Beta 9 does not occur when following the same procedure in version 4.0.


Your description seems to

Your description seems to suggest that the RAW Adjustment tool is duplicated (the ? at the top right) but when we saw problems with a few beta releases back it was the RAW Tone Curve that was being duplicated.


Form memory once the problem related to the names of the Camera specific Tone Curves for a small number of cameras and that was corrected.


There was a second issue for one release which involved, if I recall correctly, Lift and Apply lifting the 2 RAW tools AND applying a new RAW Tone Curve as well. That was quickly fixed and I don;t see it with my Canon files (1D3, 600D, G11, S90) in beta 9.


Back then the temporary solution was to right click on the Tone Cyrve tool that was excess to requirements, unlock it and then mark it as inactive or delete it according to need and preference.


Do you by any chance have a Custom Tone Curve for the 450D?


My beta 9 installation only supports 1 Tone Curve tool - if I select another one from the custom list (you may or may not have such a list) the existing one is deleted and the new one is applied. Since before beta 9 (8 or 7 I think) I have not seen any problems with such selections.


When you installed the beta did you overwrite the original V4 installation or create the beta installation in its own folder?






Re Your description seems to

I just checked again and it is definitely the RAW Adjustment tool that is duplicated.

Although I did originally install 4.1B9 over 4.0 and found this problem, I have since reverted to 4.0 and installed a separate version of 4.1B9.

Opening the file created using Copy/Apply Toolstack in 4.1B9 in 4.0 produces an error message: 'Malformed LightZone File - Unrecognised GenericOperationType "RAW Adjustments V2"'

I do not have a customtone curve for the 450D.

V4 will not understand the

V4 will not understand the new development of the RAW Adjustments V2 tool that was introduced during the beta development process at beta9 if I recall correctly. (Might have been beta 8 - I would need to checkthe release notes.)


For your original problem with the duplicated tools - were you "lifting" from a _lzn file originally created with V4 non beta?


Was the file you you "applied" to a previously unedited file or one that had been opened in either V4 or beta 9?


There have been some significant changes between V4 and the beta 9 releases. I have not seen the problems you mention but then I doubt I would have had cause to try the same activity from V4 to beta 9.


To save you some messing around I would suggest that you re-install both V4 and beta 9 but in their own differently named folder so that you can run each independently. (Certain things are shared - the "Recent" lists offered by Windows for example - but that is unlikely to be a problem in my experence.) However, as you can see from your recent error message, there is a potential problem with backwards compatibility so you would possibly need to manage the edits to keep them separate in so far as not trying to Lift and Apply across releases.


If you really need to copy the toold stack (absent the RAW tools ) from an older edit (V4) then save the Edit Tools part of the stack (not the RAW tools) as a Style so that you can then re-use it in the beta. Be aware, however, that some of the tools have also changed (Noise Reduction for example) and might not transfer without the need for some form of intervention in some cases. That's part of the price of progress!







Version compatibility

Thanks Grant,

Problem sorted.

Although I had V4 and V4.1B9 in separate folders, they were both looking at the same folder for RAW & edited image files.

Having now separated image files into separate folders too, the problem has gone away and was indeed apparently due to version incompatibility.


Glad you have it sorted.

Glad you have it sorted.


I suspect that the potential anomalies probably ought to be trapped (or at least warned about) for a release at the end of a beta period. That would be more appropriate (in my opinion) than expecting separate image file systems.


Either that or a one off no going back conversion on update. (Most people I would guess would overwrite rather than double install.


That said it's not a problem I have come across personally so I assume the way I have been working does not entail returning to previous edits for lifting and pasting in beta 9. Not a conscious decision on my part - just the way it is. There were other similar anomalies back in earlier betas though for difference reasons as I recall. Maybe that was where the passge of time took me away from previous edits so that I am only using newer files.


Anyway, good to have it documented in case others hit the same issue and as a reference for the eventual full release post beta.






If I remember well, RAW

If I remember well, RAW adjustement tool change during beta (I would say probably with beta 7 or beta 8).

One way to get back your V4 tool stack in beta9, could be to open your V4 lzn file in beta 9, create a temporar style without RAW tools checked and apply this style to the original RAW.

Since beta 8, it is possible

Since beta 8, it is possible to open older _lzn.jpg files, containing the old RAW adjustment tool, and edit and save them without problems. The workaround with saving and applying styles is necessary only if one wants to replace the old raw adjustments with the new ones, which is in most cases hardly urgent.


It seems that the last place, where "duplicated 'RAW Adjustment' tools issue" is still hiding, is the lift tool. So avoiding it, when editing individual _lzn.jpg images, created with older versions, is perhaps the easiest option.


Anyway, beta 10 is coming soon.