Lift and Apply function using 4.1 beta 10


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SFA
Lift and Apply function using 4.1 beta 10

Hi all,

 

This seems to be the same problem that Leahcimi has with beta 9 and Canon 450D.

 

I also have it with beta 9 AND beta 10 with a Canon 600D using RAW files. Applying a newly created "Lift" made using the current open version (9 for 9 and 10 for 10), delivers a result that has the lifted RAW Tool and and Tone curve applied in addition to the default RAW tool and tone curve.

 

However I have now tested the same process with a Canon S90, G11 and 1D3. None of them presented problems.

 

From an older testing anomaly I had some alternative 600D tone curve in the templates folder. I wondered if they might be an influence so I tried a couple of renaming tricks and then moved them to another folder. After each change I restarted LZ. None of that made any difference. I am wondering if clearing the cache might be worth trying BUT I would have expected only an extra tone curve if it was a cache type of problem, not a RAW Adjustments tool as well.

 

I don't recall seeing this with beta 9 before. However it is possible that I have not tried lift and apply with 600D files since it has been installed. Beta 10 is installed in a separate folder in my system. Is there any part of the beta 10 update that might also influence how beta 9 works despite being in a separate folder? (Other than Templates and similar which are shared data.)

 

Is there anything else I should be checkiing?

 

 

Grant

 

 

leahcimi
I've checked my files and

I've checked my files and found that the problem exists if I try this technique on images processed with versiion 4.0 but works Ok with images processed on version 4.1beta9.

 

This is true for images orgiinally shot on my Canon 450D and S95.

 

SFA
I remember that we seemed to

I remember that we seemed to get to that point on the other post. However I have been avoiding images with any previous processing  - take a an unprocessed ( by LZ, based the absence of any edit LZN JPG file), edit and save the result creating a new LZN jpg.)

 

Lift that new edit. Select another previously unedited CR2 file and Apply the changes. I'm seeing a Default pair of the RAW files plus the pair from the "Lift". But only for the files from the 600D not the other cameras I have checked.

 

One thing that seems strange is that you see the problem with your S95 yet I see no problem with my S90 and they are, if I recall correctly, processed with information shared between the two bodies.I get the feeling there is something not obvious going on here but I can;t quite work out what to look at next.

 

I have previously observed that selecting and applying a different RAW Tone Curve in edit mode will change the values in the existing Tone Curve whereas it seems that trying the same thing now adds an additional curve - even in beta 9.

 

There may be more (or less!) to this than there seems to be at first sight.

 

 

 

Grant

 

 

leahcimi
Just to clarify, I see no

Just to clarify, I see no problems at all when using version 4.1beta10 to lift/apply tools from an image originally edited with version 4.1beta9 whether the image came from my Canon 450D or S95.

 

The ealier problem I had was attempting to use version 4.1beta9 on files edited in version 4.0.

 

SFA
Some further experiments

Some further experiments suggest that the camera is not the main factor.

 

My 600D is not the problem.  When editing files in some other folders LZ works as expected. I can also successfully Lift an edit from a folder with no problems and Apply it to a folder which exhibits problems with internal lift and apply activities.

 

I think there may be something going on related to the working folder/files cache in the Temp folder with, potentially, the same file appearing in more than one temp folder.

 

I'm not sure what I should be looking for (beyond multiple instances of the same file name in more than one temp folder) so if anyone could provide an indication of what the code is setting out to do with previously created and retained edit information during a new Lift and Apply process it should be helpful in working out how to test for potential problems - although ultimately it may require a full de-bug investigation.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Grant

 

ETA. This may or may not be the same (or part of the same) problem as editing earlier release V4 files in beta 9 or beta 10. From what I can see the problem is independent of whether the revised RAW Adjustments functionality is involved because I see the problem happening when working on previously unedited files.

Jacal
Two cache folders

One of bug fixes in beta 10: Windows - Use cache folder under %APPDATA% instead of Application Data

 

I admit I have asked for this more than once. What I didn't think of, is the new cache folders duplication on machines with multiple versions installed.

 

Mart

 

SFA
Hi Mart,

Hi Mart,

 

Thanks for the ideas.

 

I had wondered about that but from what I understand the %APPDATA% is really a logical name that can be used generically to point to a particular location for each user that then becomes common for them within a domain. 

 

MS documentation mentions this in connection with WIndows 8 and 8.1.

 

The APPDATA folder in my Win 7 system continad the target "roaming" folder within which can be found the LZ folder then caches and within the caches folder a large number of edit session folders, many empty, that have been created over time. Thius is, more or less, as it always has been, the location of the cache folder depending on the age of the LZ version and the particular Windows OS in use.

 

Updates to the cached files are occurring in those folders that are active

 

Mostly the folders seems to contain cached preview related files  - several for each image - if the files have been actively accessed. Looking at the dates some of the fiels are current and some go back several months. FOr the same image by file name although I am reaasonably sure that many of the files I have added lzn files to today and which were not displaying any evidence of such files in the editor UI, do in fact have some quite old cache files in certain folders. But no original jpg lzn file that I can see. (None appears using Windows search either.)

 

I did use the "Clear Cache" function earlier today suspecting that there mght be some sort of cache problem. How complete that was I don't know - I don't know if it has any special rules built in to it.

 

Also I wonder if it might be version/release/beta release dependent and only clears (in the beta) files related to that beta release. But that seem unlikely based on what I have see - although I can't be sure what is supposed to happen and I don't have a before/after snapshot to compare. There are many small files floating around for whch the contents are unreadable by normal means. I assume that they are largely binary files and act as some of semi-structured index and workfile coordination for each edit file. However that is a guess.

 

At the moment it looks like there may be a connection to pre-existing cache files somewhere in cache that relate to the image being edited.  But if, as it seems, they are entirely disconnected from any previous jpg_lzn files which no longer exist in the current system (so far as I can see) then what is prompting the Lift/Apply process to find and apply pre-existing adjustments from the Temp folder?

 

In a way this would be much the same as Leahcimi's problems with V4.0 files processed in beta 9 and may be the same thing though as yet the source of the problem is unclear to me.

 

The one thing that is clear is that this is not camera specific nor camera consistent.

 

All very interesting but easier to assess when knowing what the source code is attempting to do!

 

Grant

 

 

Jacal
Two cache folders

On my windows 7 computers LZ 4.0 and betas 1-4 always create a new, XP-style folder "Application Data" - C:\Users\Username\Application Data - and put LightZone\Caches there. Betas 5-9 for some reason inherit this behaviour, but only on computers, "infested" with older versions. LZ beta 10 finally strictly puts caches where it should, in folder C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\LightZone\Caches.

SFA
Is that anything to do with

Is that anything to do with using the options for choosing Local or Global cache?

 

 

 

Grant

 

 

Jacal
Global

This is all with using Global cache.

 

Mart